Edward Snowden

Hirmuinen · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: Edward Snowden

What are your opinions of him you Amenicanerers.

I would be furious if some dude from Finland had or is giving away information to outsiders. Like giving stuff for Russia about military or political, past or current doesn't matter, but how about you? Of course in this case it's about American citizens and their rights.

It's so easy to shit on USA, recent boston bombing showed it's not all fair. Call me a fool but I think I live much happier if USA is the one who calls the shots and is the world police.
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amirelle · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Edward Snowden

I personally am not terribly outraged knowing that the government is collecting my information. I imagine that I'm not very interesting to them anyway, since my life is pretty ordinary. I'd rather have a bit more security. Of course, I'm not the only one who is affected, and there are plenty of others who don't consent to this.

Draco · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject:

Just to be an arse...

Messy Recipe · Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject:

I'm the type of person who wants as little to do with any form of authority as possible, and tend to hate people who think they somehow have the right to authority over me when they're just another person like me (unless I agreed to it, but living in a country you were born in instead of leaving isn't agreeing to it, since there is such a massive cost to leaving by the time you hit the age and maturity to make that decision).... so I can't stand the government and this is just one more thing to the list of shit they do.

I don't need them for security and frankly, a lot of laws make it harder to keep yourself safe.

I think the criminals here are the people spying on us...

That said, none of it is really surprising or shocking anymore since I just kinda assume they're overreaching and abusing power and whatnot already.
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Hirmuinen · Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:42 am Post subject:

I think a lot bigger problem is that US is spying other Nato nations and EU nations. All while free trade pact is being negotiated between EU and US. Also Canada is being spied on. This whole terrorism fear feels just an excuse to spy research and economy.

I have made complete over turn on this and my opinion. A lot more has been done than just surveillance of US citizens, this is a lot bigger problem that could have big impacts. First of it takes all the ground of US complaining of China's and Russia's spying when US itself spy from its closest Nato/economy allies(UK, France, Germany, Canada). All while Obama just shrugs it off like no big deal, your safety and so on...really insulting.

It takes away the ground of US to lead softly and show example with EU or something. Now it's just free for all, steal, copy, spy, doesn't matter.
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Vlad Piranha · Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:55 am Post subject:

Hirmuinen wrote:

I think a lot bigger problem is that US is spying other Nato nations and EU nations. All while free trade pact is being negotiated between EU and US. Also Canada is being spied on. This whole terrorism fear feels just an excuse to spy research and economy.

I have made complete over turn on this and my opinion. A lot more has been done than just surveillance of US citizens, this is a lot bigger problem that could have big impacts. First of it takes all the ground of US complaining of China's and Russia's spying when US itself spy from its closest Nato/economy allies(UK, France, Germany, Canada). All while Obama just shrugs it off like no big deal, your safety and so on...really insulting.

It takes away the ground of US to lead softly and show example with EU or something. Now it's just free for all, steal, copy, spy, doesn't matter.

Gotta love our Commander in Chief. He's Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon rolled into one.

atatme · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:55 am Post subject:

Vlad Piranha wrote:

Hirmuinen wrote:

I think a lot bigger problem is that US is spying other Nato nations and EU nations. All while free trade pact is being negotiated between EU and US. Also Canada is being spied on. This whole terrorism fear feels just an excuse to spy research and economy.

I have made complete over turn on this and my opinion. A lot more has been done than just surveillance of US citizens, this is a lot bigger problem that could have big impacts. First of it takes all the ground of US complaining of China's and Russia's spying when US itself spy from its closest Nato/economy allies(UK, France, Germany, Canada). All while Obama just shrugs it off like no big deal, your safety and so on...really insulting.

It takes away the ground of US to lead softly and show example with EU or something. Now it's just free for all, steal, copy, spy, doesn't matter.

Gotta love our Commander in Chief. He's Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon rolled into one.

The fact is, no one knows how much Obama has to do with ANY of this. For all we know, it has been going on since the late 90s and Obama just got it dropped in his lap. Lets be serious, anyone who has ever studied American history for even a little bit, do we really think America spying on other nations is a recent enough development to have only been going on for 4 years? Not a fucking chance. Lets be realistic, in all probability, America has been spying on as much of the world as it could since world war 2, certainly since the cold war. Welcome to this country, it shouldn't really be surprising to anyone.

*DISCLAIMER* Not saying its right. Don't jump down my throat about this, I'm as pissed off about it as anyone. Invasions of privacy are not something that sit well with me, but haven't people talked before about the game of thrones? Were we actually foolish enough to think that such concepts were just fiction?

Vlad Piranha · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:05 am Post subject:

When Sgt. Robert Bales murdered sixteen Afghans, Hamid Karzai got an immediate personal apology from our President. He had nothing to do with that either, but it was a act of respect and compassion, or so the story goes. Our country has now been treating its allies and friends like collaborators and plotters and they get absolutely nothing for this slap in the face? Does our government only issue apologies as appeasement to potential threats? That isn't right. We as a nation spend so much time looking for enemies that we've forgotten what friends look like. You're right that this has been going on for twelve years, but it seems to me that someone promised us changes to the status quo. I want someone to apologize, start an inquiry, or just get fired. This whole thing is a mess that should never have happened and if it's treated like another day at the office, nothing good will ever come of it.

As for Snowden himself, I don't think he realizes how ironic his situation is. By attempting asylum in places like Russia, he's turned himself into a political bargaining chip for nations renowned for human rights abuses. Russia is ranked #9 on the list of nations most dangerous for journalists. It used to be even higher on the list in previous years. Does that sound like an honest government that a moral crusader would want to have anything to do with?

Stealth · Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject:

Good on Snowden for exposing what he felt was violation of rights. I feel that he shouldn't be labeled as a traitor.

Bad on government for spying (but has happened for years).
And screw the NSA.
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