Could Japan go to war against China?

Hirmuinen

I'm thinking no, but apparently both are arming up and provoke each other over these islands. Japan has said to increase its military spending this year.

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21569740-risks-clash-between-china-and-japan-are-risingand-consequences-could-be

What would USA do and could it really be possible? I mean it sounds very unlikely, but one mistake from the other would fire things up really quickly.
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Eugene · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:08 am Post subject:

Will they go to war? Most likely.

Will the U.S. Intervene? That is a good question, because we would have to side with China since our economies are so intertwined. Now of course, we could side with Japan boycott China and the price of cheaply made goods will go up due to short supply. This could create U.S. manufacturing jobs, but I have no idea what would happen to the US economy in the process.

More than likely, the US would try and host a peace summit, which would not work and we may eventually throw our hats into a war.

If we did get into a war, politically I imagine this would happen:
Congress approval tanks from 14% to the low single digits.
Presidential approval rating tanks even lower.
The U.S. Forces are spread thin between North Korea, The Middle East, and this war in Asia.
Our economy could tank, unless other countries join the war and we go into the arms trade business like in WWII.
In the U.S. there would be protests, we may see the rise of a second hippy-esque movement.
There is a possibility of a draft.

TL;DR: War is bad.

Stealth · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject:

Due to our treaty with Japan, we are obligated to side with them rather than China.

But with China being on of our major importers, it would hurt us greatly not to join them.

I think it's better if the US doesn't get involved at all.
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Eugene · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject:

I think it would be best if we didn't get involved, but the US is seen by many as the police of the world.

Vlad Piranha · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject:

Eugene wrote:

I think it would be best if we didn't get involved, but the US is seen by many as the police of the world.

As I've said before, unlike the police, we aren't funded by the people we protect. Our nation uses its vast wealth to fight cruelty, corruption and human rights abuses all over the globe for the sheer sake of battling evil. No one even asked us to do it, our own convictions led us to this end. So really, we're more like the Batman of the world.

BarytaQ · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject:

I'm not read up on Batman lore, but I see the US as the self-entitled vigilante that thinks it's doing well when it's actually hurting more than helping.

I also avoid politics as much as I can, so I know very little. I just don't feel like Batman would use drones to bomb people.
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Stealth · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject:

Hahaha, yeah. We're batman. Laughing

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Motherfucking Triangles! Being all three sided n' shit, who do they think they are?!

massive · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject:

Vlad Piranha wrote:

As I've said before, unlike the police, we aren't funded by the people we protect. Our nation uses its vast wealth to fight cruelty, corruption and human rights abuses all over the globe for the sheer sake of battling evil. No one even asked us to do it, our own convictions led us to this end. So really, we're more like the Batman of the world.

Um, no, we do that shit cuz our corporations are profiting in every hell hole we stick our noses into - and Afghanistan was revenge. We used to do stuff to thwart communism while we were exploiting those we helped - now the evil bad guys are al quaida - so all your oil fields belong to us
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

Eugene · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject:

Batman: Vigilante who used fear and intimidation to get what he needs. He does not kill, because that would make him the same as those he hunts.

As bary pointed out, we use drones. And Massive is 100% right. We got into WW2 because we went into the arms trade business and sold ships to the allied forces. Since then, we have been in a war pretty much non-stop.

Cold War->We hated communism
Vietnam->We hated that the Vietnamese choose communism
Korea->Communism.
The First Gulf War-> The first time we policed the world.
Iraq-> Revenge.

We are not Batman.

Stealth · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject:

I fail to see the difference. Everything stated thus far has been perception.

On the inside, we want profit and to boost our economy. So we do what we can to do that.

On the societal level, it seems we're doing the right thing. We hated communism and felt it was "evil," so we intervened.

On the outside, it looks like we're a hungry beast of a super villain bent on stomping out anyone who threatens our power.

Thing is, all are true.

TLDR; It's a joke. We're Batman.
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Motherfucking Triangles! Being all three sided n' shit, who do they think they are?!

BarytaQ · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject:

I could get behind a Flag with the Bat Symbol on it. I praise Allegiance, to the Bat, of the United states of Bat-Murica.
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My pitiful backpack...
I'll still blow your ass up.

Erwin Rommel · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:46 pm Post subject:

Eugene wrote:

We got into WW2 because we went into the arms trade business and sold ships to the allied forces.

IMHO, that's a much better description of WWI than WWII. Before Pearl Harbor, the US would have been content to just keep selling weapons without getting involved. War with Japan was pretty much inevitable from colonialism in the Pacific. If the US didn't have possessions overseas or Japan wasn't as aggressive, I have a hard time seeing the spark that was required to bring the US into it.

Interesting alternative history: Japan and Germany never ally. Does the Japan still attack the US? If so, what happens in Europe, with the US's attention focused elsewhere. If not, how (if at all) does the US get involved?
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Messy Recipe · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:20 pm Post subject:

The oil embargo on Japan was what caused the war. They needed oil to continue their war in China, and cutting off our supply to them forced them to either give up or go after Dutch holdings -- the attack on Pearl Harbor was an attempt to knock out any possible naval opposition to the IJN.

It's possible that without the German alliance we might have gone easier on them... things really started going wrong when they took over French holdings, but that might've happened even if they weren't friendly with Germany. I think it's most likely it would've ended in war anyway though, given that they were aggressively expanding in China throughout the 1930s and likely would've wanted something from the US sooner or later.
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Birds can disable planes, Ostrom said, by flying into the engines and shutting them down.

massive · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject:

Russia would have defeated Germany and eventually Japan, the resources and production of Russia was 3-4 times bigger than Germany's and the Allied embargo on Germany and Japan really limited them. Hitler's only chance to win was the Moscow Offensive which failed miserably - even though Russia lost 3-4 times German losses, it completely replaced everything within a year - something that would have been impossible for Germany.

Interesting facts:

almost 90% of Germany's losses were caused by Russian forces.
Germany deployed 90ish tank divisions on the western front (vs US, UK, etc.) and ~275 or so tank divisions on the eastern front (vs. Russia).....and we got to berlin about the same time
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

Erwin Rommel · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject:

In other words, the Soviets would have been the real winners in that scenario.
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