achievements/ranks and unlocks on games

Hirmuinen

At first I thought these things would be pretty awesome, but lately these things are sort of pissing me off. They are becoming more and more popular and even games you woudn't think would ever start implenting them are now doing so.

What annoys me is that most of the time these achievements don't mean anything and you are just playing and every once in a while you unlock completely useless and stupid achivement. This is fine, because it doesn't matter the game at all, and if people think they are so important they can try to get them.

But on some games like BF2 and TF2, which I bought week ago, have unlocks(weapons, gear changes, some extras) that require you to do something or play and collect certain amount of points. This is really fucking stupid. On TF2 I could care less about the achivements and because of that I might never be able to unlock the new weapons and extras to customize my classes. I have played 20 hours and I still don't have any new stuff and I have no idea how long does it take me to play the game "normally" to get these.

I have even read that some of these achviements are so hard to get that they needed to do it on special server with people trying to do the same thing. Some are even close to impossible to do on normal games and serves no purpose to encourage good team game.

Where is the fucking logic in that?
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RK-Mara · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:55 am Post subject:

But you don't really need any of the unlockable weapons in TF2, they are just extra for dedicated players.
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Bender · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:12 am Post subject:

summary: bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending.

2:50 AM - -=|CT|=- Dr. Crunk: whenever a girl is like "oh what are you thinking about"
2:50 AM - -=|CT|=- Dr. Crunk: i say nothing cause saying dudes wouldn't go over well

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Hirmuinen · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject:

RK-Mara wrote:

But you don't really need any of the unlockable weapons in TF2, they are just extra for dedicated players.

But that's the thing. Most likely I will never get these extras and people say they are useless and so on, but it still doesn't change that I CAN'T play with them. I paid for the game(ok for half price :> ) and I should be able to get all the content the others are getting without having to cheat or get them by not playing the game as it was ment to be played.

I mean the content is already in the game, but to get it I need to play 100 hours on each class to unlock them all? No thanks. I think this is really stupid as the first ones to unlock the new weapons and extras are the clan players who cheats(they call it farming) the unlocks. AND if you have to do this to get these weapons, why have the damn thing in the first place?! This system doesn't reward dedicated players, it punishes the ones who don't cheat and actually plays the game!!
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anonymousity · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject:

The other day I got the 'Chicken Kicker' achievement in Fable II, and it made me laugh. They're not so bad if they're completely useless.
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♥♪!?

Bender · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject:

Bender wrote:

summary: bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

i say be happy you don't have to pay for them
_________________

Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending.

2:50 AM - -=|CT|=- Dr. Crunk: whenever a girl is like "oh what are you thinking about"
2:50 AM - -=|CT|=- Dr. Crunk: i say nothing cause saying dudes wouldn't go over well

3:34 PM - El.Tawxic: I wish I was a horse

Stealth · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject:

I'd probably say this topic is overgeneralization. Yes Kelsey, I used Sociology in this.

Seems like Bf2 and TF2 may have messed up in that area. But in WoW, you just get a special mount for making a big accomplishment. Or a title.

But even then the item is useless, so is the weapon which you can't get. So as long as it's not overpowered, why would you want it?
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Hirmuinen · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject:

Bender wrote:

summary: bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

i say be happy you don't have to pay for them

Well yeah...

But doesn't it feel kinda pointless to make an update with new content and then say "hey you need this uber achievement, which you might or might not get while playing the normal match, to actually unlock it!". This is what I'm after, you know theres new weapons and content, so why is it needed that you have to do some useless shit to get them?
Whats wrong with looking at change log and rejoice when you see a new weapon for you to use, instead of looking what bullshit you have to do to get it.

I'm all for extra unlocks like new customes and things that don't affect gameplay. Weapons and new abilities do affect the gameplay and some stuff are even better than the regular shits!

This is not just TF2 or BF2. These things are becoming norm to gaming and I would hate to see more of these kind of updates/games that locks you away from the content. Worst case scenario is paying for them like Empire total war is doing(I blame SEGA for it tho.).

I just don't get it!!
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Hirmuinen · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject:

Stealth wrote:

But in WoW, you just get a special mount for making a big accomplishment. Or a title.

But even then the item is useless, so is the weapon which you can't get. So as long as it's not overpowered, why would you want it?

WoW is a different game and I totally understand that it needs to motivate people to do things, you can't just give all of the things because it would break the game, but even so you are playing the game to get the achievement(so your not killing enemies with just only using your fists or healing your squad members 400 times, don't get hit by an enemy...).

And for the same reason people make new skins and models for their weapons in CS. But most of the times these new stuff, while not being something you really need, do change how you play with them and offer more variety and tactics. They are not there just for looks.
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Bunny · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject:

RK-Mara wrote:

they are just extra for dedicated players.

Yeah that's pretty much how I see them for any game really; that and bragging rights.

Stealth wrote:

I'd probably say this topic is overgeneralization. Yes Kelsey, I used Sociology in this.

Sooo you do pay attention in class =P
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Roscoe · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject:

Simply put they just do it so some people play the game more. Thats it, no secret.
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Stealth · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject:

So why would you want the item anyways if it's completely useless? How does it hurt gameplay in that case?

If it's overpowered then yea... that's bullshit.
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Motherfucking Triangles! Being all three sided n' shit, who do they think they are?!

Atomiktoaster · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject:

The TF2 unlocks are an interesting case. I have all the medic unlocks with 35 hours of play time, and a little bit of farming to get some of them. I have all the pyro unlocks with 17 hours of play and a good bit of trying (but no actual farming). I have one heavy unlock with 8 hours of playing. You definitely don't need 100 hours or anything to get the unlocks. That said, some of them are definitely upgrades (blutsauger and ubersaw for medic, KGB for heavy, and probably axtinguisher for pyro) Quite a few are true sidegrades which offer some play style variety for people who have a good bit of time with the class (sasha, backburner, kritzkrieg). The rest are usually less useful than the stock item (sandvich, flaregun).

That said, most of the achievements you can get by using all the strategies for playing the class and playing all the map types. If you actually do this, it will make you a better player with that class. As far as the general achievements, there is one (head of the class) that you get by playing a full game with each class. If you are new to the game, doing that is the best way to understand how each class works and what their strengths and weaknesses are. If every new player got that achievement first, the quality of play in most servers would improve a good bit.

The other thing is that making the weapons take a few hours to unlock really helps the game last longer, because it gives you an interesting and different way to play a class that might be getting old if you've played it a bunch. If a class is in your top 3 favorites, you should have no problem with getting 20 achievements, or whatever it is. But for me, if it's not a favorite (like scout or heavy personally) it won't bother me as much not to have the unlocks.

P.S. Anyone with TF2 should friend me on steam. I'm signed up as atomiktoaster there too.

Hirmuinen · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:20 am Post subject:

Atomiktoaster wrote:

The TF2 unlocks are an interesting case. I have all the medic unlocks with 35 hours of play time, and a little bit of farming to get some of them. I have all the pyro unlocks with 17 hours of play and a good bit of trying (but no actual farming). I have one heavy unlock with 8 hours of playing. You definitely don't need 100 hours or anything to get the unlocks. That said, some of them are definitely upgrades (blutsauger and ubersaw for medic, KGB for heavy, and probably axtinguisher for pyro) Quite a few are true sidegrades which offer some play style variety for people who have a good bit of time with the class (sasha, backburner, kritzkrieg). The rest are usually less useful than the stock item (sandvich, flaregun).

The other thing is that making the weapons take a few hours to unlock really helps the game last longer, because it gives you an interesting and different way to play a class that might be getting old if you've played it a bunch. If a class is in your top 3 favorites, you should have no problem with getting 20 achievements, or whatever it is. But for me, if it's not a favorite (like scout or heavy personally) it won't bother me as much not to have the unlocks.

But once they release new update it doesn't matter what you have done now, you still need to gain new achievements to get the new unlocks. And these achievements are getting more and more ridiculous that have nothing to do with core gameplay of the TF2(eat 100 sandwiches as heavy) or are so damned hard to get that you just can't do it while normal game(capture the itel. 3 times a row). And farming isn't something Valve planned, but they are not against it because they think gaining these achievements is fun. I'm not the only one who thinks trying to get these achievements is definetely not fun. And I don't agree how unlocks are tied to achievements and that makes them feel more like obligations to do just to get more out of your game.

It might not sound much to spend few hours to do some irrelevant thing to get what you want, just to have more fun playing the normal game, but I would rather not goof around the server just to get my damned achievement. Not only am I potentially ruining the game for my team because I keep trying to get my goal and I'm not playing the game as good as I could(or might not play the game at all to benefit my team), or there are other people on the server who are also trying to get these achievements and could possible ruin a good team game(Taunt as a heavy after you have killed an enemy while you are ubered?!).

Rozmoe the polar bear wrote:

Simply put they just do it so some people play the game more. Thats it, no secret.

And I realize this and I thought the same way myself when BF2 introduced these unlocks. But those really didn't keep me playing and I didn't even get to acces all of the locked weapons. I think locking the weapons and new stuff does actually more harm to longevity of the game.

To get these unlocks you have to grind your way to them and it's something many aren't too keen to(as it makes it feel more like a work rather than entertaiment). But if you have given enough variety without having to burn yourself out just to get them, you most likely have more fun playing the game from the start, atleast I had more fun playing BF2 when I actually got few of the locked weapons.

Stölth wrote:

So why would you want the item anyways if it's completely useless? How does it hurt gameplay in that case?

If it's overpowered then yea... that's bullshit.

Like Atomiktoaster said they are not totally useless. They are more like a situational playing, but very usefull when played right.
But we are not talking only couple of weapons, but new abilities that can really change how you play with your troop. And this is a competive multiplayer and I don't think these kind of unlocks have any place in them.

Edit. Heres some interview with valve employee about unlocks I found on one forum:

Quote:

Walker: I think some of them are going to be better. What we want is to have an item that's best for Tom, and an item that's best for Erik. And to some extent, because all items are about specialisation, there's value to remaining generic.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=185321

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Vlad Piranha · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject:

Remember the Gap Lists in the Tony Hawk Pro Skater series? I think it's alot like that usually. I got every single one back when I played 3. People like to collect things in game to get a sense of accomplishment. If it's really hard, that just means that there's something else to keep striving for. Getting all the cheats in Goldeneye back in the day nearly killed me, but I wanted to feel like I actually cleared the game. The best example of all of this is World of Warcraft. Yes, it has an achievement list, but that's not even what I'm talking about. The idea of collecting, leveling, trading and exploring is the basis of any MMO.