Gotta move that gear up!

junkyard · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject: Gotta move that gear up!

Figured I'd put up some advice and general tips for playing engi. Most of this is rather basic.

First off, some advice on the buildables:

Your dispenser is easily the most important building. Though a sentry is great for getting kills, your dispenser is incredibly useful for sustaining your team, as it can heal any number of allies while restocking their ammo. It also provides a decent amount of metal relatively quickly, making it indispensable (ha ha) when you're setting up a base and keeping it maintained. I always make this the first building I set up, and usually it's the first to reach lvl 3.

Teleporters become increasingly important the further your base is from spawn. Your team can guard your shit well, but not if they spend half their time trudging out to the point.

Sentries are strongest when placed in hallways, or areas with low ceilings (helps against demos). A good placement makes full use of its range, while giving you space nearby to put your other buildings. Bonus points if it has line of sight to them.

When upgrading, keep in mind that your sentry pauses fire for a small moment as it goes through the animation. If it's currently targeting someone, this split second may give them enough time to close in for the kill or get away, so you should often refrain from finishing an upgrade if you're in the middle of combat. Also, try to keep your back to the wall when wrenching, or turn frequently between wrench swings. Often, this is when a spy is most likely to go for you.

After a point's been captured, don't move all of your buildings up one at a time. Pick one to take with you and break the other two to rebuild when you get there. I usually take my sentry if there is plenty of metal at the new location. If there isn't, you should probably take your dispenser instead, as the extra metal generation helps a lot.

Here's a brief outline of the unlock weapons and their strengths, and a few glaring weaknesses. The gunslinger isn't included here, as I'm not as proficient with it as the other weapons, and it really creates its own subclass. Maybe I'll add in a slinger section if I get good with it.

Frontier justice
This baby is my bread and butter. Load it up with crits by being smart about your sentry placement, and you can really bring the pain. 180 damage for a meatshot is pretty sweet, and all classes but an overhealed heavy will go down within 2 shots (if all those pellets connect). Get the drop on someone, and it's deadly.

Widowmaker
A solid alternative to the fj, which is weakest when you have no crits stored in it. It can be quite rewarding to use with good aim, or very punishing if you miss more than a few shots. Its ability to help recover metal is useful too as you work on your buildings.

Pomson
Very new, but I've had a little experience with it so far. Unlike the others, it isn't a shotgun, but more of a rifle. If you're familiar with the soldier's righteous bison, it functions almost the same. You do a bit less damage, but gain ranged capabilities better than what the pistol provides, as well as some utility against spies and the occasional unaware medic. Makes you much weaker against scouts 1 on 1, and the lack of hitscan means dealing with stickies can be hard without a pistol. Medics and spies will tell you it's cheap and overpowered, but to be completely honest, I'd say it's pretty damn balanced against the other guns.

Wrangler
The fire rate/defensive boost it gives your sentry turns it into a total powerhouse. It allows for more flexibility in sentry placement, as you can extend the range at-will, as well as weather a storm of damage. Beware though, as you will become sniper bait and much easier to backstab, without your sentry watching your back. Also, without a pistol, your ranged abilities are limited to your sentry.

Short circuit
Incredibly niche, it's useful when you're facing multiple demos and soldiers. It takes practice to use effectively, but if you have a good supply of metal, you can keep all that projectile spam at bay rather well. If the other team doesn't have at least 5 people as explosive classes, you'll find yourself wishing you had a different secondary though.

Jag
Probably the most useful wrench all around, its downside of a damage penalty is actually helpful, as it discourages you from mele'ing people in the face (not smart). The faster construction while wrenching is a great bonus, and while it isn't always noticeable, you will definitely see a difference when you redeploy. Naturally, this helps you greatly when you support your team as they make a push.

Eureka effect
The ability to teleport back to spawn using a 2s taunt is suprisingly useful, and well balanced with the downside of not being able to move buildings. Overall it seems a strong choice on defense, and a weak one on offense.

Southern hospitality
You take more fire damage, in exchange for being encouraged to get in mele range with spies. A solid choice if you like being flamed to death, or getting facestabbed.

Sentry Class matchups here. Keep in mind that all classes can edge out a sentry and spam. Diligence and smart placement can help prevent this from happening.

Scout
Usually not a problem. 1 on 1. When they bonk to distract during a push, you'll want to assume manual control, if you can.

Soldier
The best class to edge out a sentry with. The direct hit can take out a sentry quickly, keep an eye open for them, you'll want to be able to tank that as soon as it starts. A lvl 3 will usually survive 1 on 1 against a soldier, assuming they start shooting at the same time.

Pyro
Not a problem unless they can close the distance and circle strafe. This is quite effective, even against a lvl 3, so be sure to anticipate this tactic when placing buildings if you're up against an experienced pyro.

Demo
Outlined in greater detail below

Heavy
High damage at close range, you're best off having your sentry take a heavy out at range. You can still tank the damage effectively at mid range, but up close and an ubered heavy will take it out faster than you can repair. A wrangler shield makes this possible to do though.

Engineer
Only time you'll give second notice to an engineer most of the time is when he's trying to take your sentry out with a wrangler. This is an effective tactic, especially with mini's, I do it quite often. Fight fire with fire in this case, and your teammates should pitch in. As always when dealing with an engi with the wrangler, aim for him directly if you can.

Medic
Ubercharges are a mechanic specifically designed to take out your base. Soldiers and demos are most effective targets against sentries, with pyros and heavies being less effective, but equally viable options. The wrangler is your best bet to deal with a deployed uber. The pomson is a great tool to delay an uber and create an opening for your teammates.

Sniper
Watch out for that sniper dot, they'll spam your buildings with charged shots if they have line of sight, and can bag you too in the process. Huntspam isn't unusual either. Weather the damage if you can, or wrangle to outdamage them at range. If nothing else, pack up and try to find a better spot to build.

Spy
See below.

A few words on your counter-classes:

Demos
A competant demo is far more of a threat to you and your stuff than a spy is. They can be effective at range, and are a common ubercharge target. When ubered, your best bet is pop out the wrangler, and keep him at range using the doubled pushback force. If he's unubered, you can often take out a demo if you catch him by surprise and are decent at dodging pipes. If stickies are dropping at your feet, a sentry rocket aimed at the ground below it will scatter them.

Spies and sappers
Always, always spycheck. Being aware is essential to keeping a spy at bay and maintaining your base. Buildings that are spaced further apart helps to prevent them from being sapped at once, but means they may be in vulnerable locations. If your teleporter covers a lot of distance, make it the first thing you unsap. Unless you're using the eureka, going back to spawn to drop another entrance puts your base at great risk. Your dispenser takes unsap priority after that. Your sentry should take lowest priority as you unsap, because rebuilding one is much easier if everything else survived. The exception is when you're unsapping under fire, in which case you should use the reverse order. Usually you can save all 3 buildings, if you act fast and let repairs wait until all the sappers are gone. If the spy is persistent however, you should try to gun them down first (while mashing the spy! voice command obviously), as sapper-spamming is a common and effective tactic they will use.

Other than that, make your extra time useful by pitching in during a fight, and don't be afraid to pack up and put your sentry into an obnoxious place during a rush.
I'm always happy to answer questions or give more in-depth tips for anyone interested, just hit me up.

PS
And for the love of god, the guy has 11 hard science phd's. stop wearing those damn hillbilly hats, it's just embarrassing.

Last edited by junkyard on Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:09 am; edited 2 times in total

atatme · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:39 am Post subject:

You should include how effective the sentry is against certain classes (scout)

tru.pairadocs · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Gotta move that gear up!

junkyard wrote:

PS
And for the love of god, the guy has 11 hard science phd's. stop wearing those damn hillbilly hats, it's just embarrassing.

Imagine if the engie had a "Git-R-Done!" taunt Very Happy

...but yea I agree, those hats are a mis-portrayal
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atatme · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject:

Hes from texas. It don't matter how smart he is, hes a hillbilly at heart. You ever seen red neck rocketeers or whatever the fuck that show is called? There is, somehow and extremely rarely, smart red necks out there

junkyard · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject:

atatme wrote:

Hey guys I saw this show on tv and it totally supports my skewed opinion

Nope.

Last edited by junkyard on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

junkyard · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject:

Updated with some sentry matchups, I'll add to this as I think of stuff.

Eugene · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject:

The mini-sentry is not appeased. It requires a separate topic of its greatness.

Vlad Piranha · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject:

sleeples wrote:

The mini-sentry is not appeased. It requires a separate topic of its greatness.

I only ever play assault engineer. For all intents and purposes, it's a totally different class. The Gunslinger/Wrangler combo is like setting up an MG42. All that's missing is the sandbags. It's absolutely killer in King of the Hill.

Erwin Rommel · Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:59 am Post subject:

junkyard wrote:

atatme wrote:

Hey guys I saw this show on tv and it totally supports my skewed opinion

Nope.

I see what you did there.

Having a Southern accent reduces your perceived IQ by 20 or 30 points.
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Chronic · Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject:

great post junk! If you could post some good spots for offense on egypt 1 for sentry placment that would be great.(non wrangler). Also defense for egypt 1 after they cap first point. I love playing engi on d egypt 1, but after they cap point one I just get frustrated and switch classes

Pharaoh Man · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject:

Good guide Mr. Yard.

I noticed you didn't mention your view on the regular shotgun. I prefer the regular 6-shot single-barrel for my damage dealer of choice. It goes with everything. Pistol, wrangler, heck, even gunslinger works with it. I feel I can spy check much more liberally, unloading 2-3 shots into someone isn't a big deal because there are more where that came from and I don't have to worry about "wasting" my crits.

I'm a huge fan of the Frontier Justice and think it goes with every build as well, but bursting into 6 shots of pure hatred is a frightening thing. 3 shots of crits is good too, but sometimes the 3 shots isn't enough for me, especially if I'm using the wrangler and don't have pistol backup.

The crits are also telegraphed, so someone might see your lightning-shotgun and hide from you instead of trying to pick off the weak little defenseless engineer (muahahaha). I consider the Frontier Justice a perfect sidegrade, as I don't think it's better or worse than the shotgun, just different.

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I also like the Southern Hospitality. I agree with what you said about trying not to melee people (which is why I like the full-size shotgun), but that's why I like the bleed effect. Unlike the wooden sniper sword or funny scout bat, the Southern Hospitality is a full-damage weapon with bleed, so it's good even if you just whack someone once with it. If you whack someone with it, you can just let them go, and maybe the bleeding or teammates will finish them. You don't have to chase after them swinging your wrench, just waiting for them to crit your face off. As for the drawbacks, I don't mind "weakness to fire damage" because if a pyro gets that close to you without you knowing, you're screwed anyway.

"No random crits" is actually a pretty heavy drawback for both the SH and FJ, because the engy will have more random crits than most classes if his sentry is doing its job (with any class, more damage done = higher % of crit chance). I think the bleed makes up for it though.

I don't really like the jag. I don't think the extra build time matters enough to equip it over the regular wrench or SH.

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BONUS TIP FROM PHARAOH MAN:

While you're banging away at your building, either constructing, repairing or upgrading, your wrench has to be on your building at the exact moment you swing down. However, with all that extra time as you're raising it, you have half a second or so to peek around. You can twitch back and forth from looking behind you and banging your building if you choose. This is good against spies who have been watching you and waiting for their opportunity, or if you're building a sentry in a risky spot and an enemy could appear behind you at any second.

Even if you don't twitch around every single wrench-whack, doing it every 2-3 whacks will catch quite a few spies.

junkyard · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject:

Just a couple quick shots for defense on stage one. When we get replays rolling, I'll have more in depth info on this stuff.

Point one is almost always capped from a strong push from the right exit. I always prioritize covering that side.
One
Two

Locking down the tunnels to the right of point 2 is also very important.
Three

Covering the tunnel exclusively isn't an option if you're the only engineer though, so these two places supress grouping in the tunnels or behind the point, and cover the point itself.
Four
Five

2shoes · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject:

you also forgot to mention that scouts that use teles are dicks
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