An analysis of the Pyro.

Eugene · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: An analysis of the Pyro.

I got bored in Calculus III, and decided to do an analysis of all the classes over the next few weeks. I don't really expect much feedback, but at this point we need more forum activity so here we go:

The Pyro, is in my opinion the weakest of the nine classes when it comes to the team, and many other classes fills the same roles better.

He deals damage up close and with the backburner he has incredible burst. A good pyro who bypasses defenses can destroy an entire team in seconds. So can a demo man, soldier, and heavy in about the same time, however those classes are not dependent on the players facing away from them like the pyro is, or even too much of a reliance on other weapons.

As a defensive role: I will give this to pyro, he is amazing at this. A degreaser/flamethrower pyro can do so much for this team defensively. The pyro and the scout are tied for spy checking in my mind, all thought the pyro might edge out a bit due to his ability to airblast.

Seriously, airblast is one of my favorite moves in the game. It beats an uber, it can tie someone up for a while, and it can extinguish teammates. Not to mention, a degreaser/axtinguesher pyro can light someone on fire, airblast them up, switch to the axe and get a kill, or even better it is possible for the pyro to use an enemy rocket to rocket jump(Any pyro that does this, gets a virtual high-five).
However at the same time, the engie and demo are far better at being defensive all-star players, and the only thing they don't have from the pyro is the airblast.

Before people come at me and tell me about how sick they are at pyro *coughatatmecought*.

I want to say this:
-A kritz Pyro can be deadly.
-Despite the pyro being a glass cannon with the backburner, he is a cannon that shoots out nuclear fucking bombs.
-Any pyro is still deadly, especially someone who has crazy skills with the flare gun at long ranges.

In closing, while the pyro is a deadly class in the right hands. He doesn't really shine in any specific role outside of spy checking. His problem is that his weapons either limit him in a role of pure raw damage or utility. Pyro doesn't have area denial, speed, long range damage, healing(technically he does heal for one on a successful extinguish.), or even capping power. The only thing that the pyro does have over the other classes is the ability to keep the same speed while dealing damage and not having to reload. Thoughts, ideas, disagreements?

massive · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject:

I agree with a lot of that - but having a defensive pyro blasting enemies off the point or blasting ubers back enough till it wears off is priceless, esp on weak defensive minded teams. Combine a medi healing a pyro on a point with supportive firepower around makes for a real tough cap. 2 or more like minded pyros can hold a point like mad with even mild support.

Good offense is a good defense as well...I like charging my pyro head long into thickets of enemy esp as they are gathering for a charge. idc much about kdr, and this disrupts the offense quite a bit. If you can sneak around the backs of em....mmmmmm charbroil time. I've killed 5-6 at a time from the back on occasion.

There is something about fire, even in game that is a little bit scary - funny how when you charge with a flamethrower how many people automatically retreat.

All that being said, the pyro has been neglected with weapon choices time and time again.
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Eugene · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject:

It's really difficult to design weapons for the pyro.

Nothing is better than the axtinguesher, except maybe the powerjack or homewrecker depending on your role.

As for sub-weapons, well you have your shotgun, (and if the shotgun changes go through, you can have other shotguns) and the flare gun/detonator.

Finally you have the three types of flamethrowers. Which is bland but cool.

What I would love to see is the utilization of the flame grenades. We still have meet the pyro, and I would love to see something like:

Flamethrower:
Lighting your enemies on fire builds up a charge. Upon a successful charge all other weapons do additional fire damage. This does not light your weapons on fire.
-25% ammo

Fire Grenades:
Lob a fire grenade
Upon detonation, the surrounding area will be light on fire for two seconds. This fire does not break a spys cloak, or reveal their disguise.
(Gives the pyro area denial)
ammo 3

Throwing Axes:
Because Fuck you, thats why. Also it would be the first ranged melle item.

atatme · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject:

sleeples wrote:

It's really difficult to design weapons for the pyro.

Flamethrower:
Lighting your enemies on fire builds up a charge. Upon a successful charge all other weapons do additional fire damage. This does not light your weapons on fire.
-25% ammo

Fire Grenades:
Lob a fire grenade
Upon detonation, the surrounding area will be light on fire for two seconds. This fire does not break a spys cloak, or reveal their disguise.
(Gives the pyro area denial)
ammo 3

Throwing Axes:
Because Fuck you, thats why. Also it would be the first ranged melle item.

He can't have area denial. Pyro fills a few roles in their formula. Hes the hard counter for spy, hes the short range class, and he negates a single demo or soldier on the other team. If they have multiple soldiers or demos in teh same spot, hes the sacrificial goat because both teams basically have to kill the pyro to harm anyone else around. If pyro got area denial he would be too OP, his secondary somehow has to fill one of those 3 roles

Erwin Rommel · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject:

All of that assumes that Valve still cares about balance and dynamic play, and TF2 isn't just an extension of valve's giant marketing machine. /cynicism

Anyway, how does the flare gun fit into the formula?
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Badman · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject:

what sleeples? pyro is the weakest? i cant hear you, im cooking alot of spies, demos, medics, snipers, and so on. i hope you will get to try some badman BBQ its famous

Eugene · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject:

The Flare Gun is an interesting weapon. It gives the pyro a ranged weapon, but only if they are on fire. So to kill someone at full health you need to hit them 2-3 times. As a close range weapon, the shotgun is better or better yet the axtinguesher. For my pyro layout I personally use:

Degreaser/Shotgun/Axtinguesher.

And if the the shotgun change goes through im switching to the new soldier shotgun. Airblast up, switch to shotty and mini-crit FTW. I like the flare gun but at the same time, I'm not too big of a fan due to its dependency on targets already burning.

atatme · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject:

The flare gun was designed as a way to finish people off after flaming. You flame and airblast, if they go too far to axe you switch to flare gun and do that 90 damage. Pyro has weapons that crit when on fire, its a sub-theme of his

*edit* it has arc on projectile to make it harder to use at long range, making it less useful than it could be. Thats why it moves relatively slowly as well

massive · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject:

sleeples wrote:

Throwing Axes:
Because Fuck you, thats why. Also it would be the first ranged melle item.

I fucking love you for this....YARR
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

Vlad Piranha · Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject:

I've always preferred to give a pyro an uber right out of the gate at the start of any defense map. Other classes can't back the enemy off nearly as quickly. Uber heavies are better suited for dealing with sentries in less accessible spots, sort of like the start of Dustbowl Phase I and the rooftop there, but pyros are about the best plan for dispersing the enemy. I also love how, properly used, they can annihilate an engineer while destroying his equipment. If you're attacking a capture point with two ubers at the same time, the first should be a heavy and the second should be a pyro. The uber pyro keeps the enemy from retaliating in any good way.

If I were to create a single item for the pyro, it would be a secondary slot item of boots with concrete soles named the Steady Stompers. Pyro speed would be diminished by 15% but he would be immune to all pushing effects from bullets (Sentries and Force A Nature, for instance) and pushing effectiveness from explosions and airblasts would be reduced by half. Just for shits and giggles, I'd make the caption be "These boots are made for stomping". Believe me, if I knew how to go about making an item, I'd be underway as I've given this some serious thought.

Eugene · Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:15 am Post subject:

Sadly, Valve only wants weapon skins. They just design the weapons stats.

Guilt · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject:

So, the Pryo.

Aside from worshiping the axtinguisher we should think about the different ways to play him.
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2shoes · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject:

the only way to play pryo is fuck you i have fire
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