CAUTION!! Politics thread

massive · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: CAUTION!! Politics thread

Fuck all republican ass hats that are trying to take away the right to collective bargaining - while claiming its a budget issue - after giving more tax cuts to big business and billionaires. Fucking liars.

If you want to live in an Oligarchy - we'll be there soon unless we can stop these far right jack asses. Power to the people and common sense!
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

anonymousity · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject:

I mean I simply hate unions cause they essentially forced my family and I out of California for good... but yeah I can see where your coming from. Our hate is sorta special case, the plumbing unions in LA are corrupt as fuck and are enormous cock-fuck asshole sons of bitches.
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♥♪!?

Messy Recipe · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject:

Sure, labor is a market too. What's really any different between a corporation organized to negotiate sales of goods/services and a union organized to negotiate sales of labor?

But if the employer doesn't have a contract with the union agreeing to keep their workers, or if the union breaks a contract, then the employer shouldn't be criticized for or prevented from firing them all and looking elsewhere. Just like you would go buy goods elsewhere if a company didn't meet your terms...

Blaming problems on one side (Republicans) of a fake two-dimensional spectrum is dangerous though, because it oversimplifies things to "one side vs the other." As is "power to the people" -- because nobody represents all the people (remember, even the asshats and jackasses are part of the people), and our laws are supposed to protect from tyranny of the majority....how about "power to the individual" or to "free association"?
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Stealth · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject:

I've never been educated enough to make an informed decision.

I am ignorant. I have never understood politics and for the most part, I completely disregard political parties and issues.

I consider society completely fucked up as it appears laws get enacted and create a new outcome. I find deriving what constitutes as the correct way to live too subjective for any one person to know.

Everyone wants things to be done their way, but this is impractical of course.

From what I hear, "Unions" helped establish fair wages and brought about great things though it could have gone towards negative things should the wrong people were put in power. But due to my ignorance, I cannot determine whether or not collective bargaining will have an impact on my daily life or in the future.And unforutnately, when people try to inform me, I tend to only hear their side of the arguement, which is probably another reason why I will continue to be ignorant.
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Motherfucking Triangles! Being all three sided n' shit, who do they think they are?!

Vlad Piranha · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject:

Northwest Airlines had to sell to Delta because even its janitors were making $40,000 a year due to union membership and was losing too much money. I can understand skilled laborers demanding better pay, but it's just greed for some blue collar slob to get more money simply because he has scary friends.

massive · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject:

collective bargaining gives the workers (people like you and me) a voice at the table. otherwise the rich and powerful owners would take advantage of us to the point of surfdom. Collective bargaining is the only thing that even attempts to balance the power of the huge (and now mostly international) companies and conglomerates.

Unions by and large created the middle class (which is now shrinking faster than anyone thinks) - the rich and powerful (they used to be called Robber Barons, and aptly so) have been fighting this class war for the last 30 years. (NAFTA, CAFTA, 'Free Trade' (no tarriffs) which means it will cost you in the long run)

It's unions that won badly needed labor laws that protect workers' rights on the job; that have won the 8-hour day; that have provided for health and safety provisions; that have allowed workers a pension ( a pension is DEFERED WAGES - MEANING THEY ALREADY EARNED THEM BUT PUT THEM IN A PENSION FOR RETIREMENT); that have allowed workers vacation and sick pay--these are all things that many of us take for granted, but were actually won by unions.

Unions are our last best hope for a fair shake - you better believe it.

Don't buy the misnamed 'Right to Work' States - which is tricky talk for nearly outlawing unions (as is here in AZ) Wages are shit here.

Do you guys study history? Some of the miners killed by thugs hired by big corporations when they were just trying to scratch out a living and somewhat safe working conditions. Shit - no 'working class republican' seems to mind the giant cock of propaganda shoved down their throats - in fact, they scream at people like me who are trying to get them to vote in their own best interests...they watch Fox news like it's a religion. If it is a religion, they are the altar boys and Rupert Murdoch (the foreign billionaire owner of Fox) is the priest ass raping them again day after day.
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

massive · Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject:

Vlad Piranha wrote:

Northwest Airlines had to sell to Delta because even its janitors were making $40,000 a year due to union membership and was losing too much money. I can understand skilled laborers demanding better pay, but it's just greed for some blue collar slob to get more money simply because he has scary friends.

Don't know where you heard that, but if a janitor was making $19/hour it sure wasn't the difference in a company's viability and selling out. If that janitor was a head of household - ~$3300 a month would barely be enough to put a roof over heads and feed a family of 4. Sounds like BS to me. Please research the executives pay at the time as well as the # of executives and the # of janitors.
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

Brutus · Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:22 am Post subject:

Not impressed by teachers unions and even less by GOVERNMENT unions. I see the results with my children and local federal organizations.

Unions had a place FOR SURE, and i think they still do. Its a great idea. But they have become as harmful to "the people" as the greedy bastages they are supposedly fighting against. I cant say I'd miss them any more than corporate sleeze or lawyers.

I think a law banning collective bargaining seems overkill, but not sure where to draw a line on unions any more than I know where to draw the line on free market capitalism and maximum profits.
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Raed · Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:08 pm Post subject:

I'm split. I feel like unions are definitely needed in many fields to protect workers. However, teachers unions seem to impede education more than anything by making it hard to fire shitty teachers.
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-=|CT|=- Raed

massive · Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject:

I'm all for firing shitty teachers or workers, yes that can be a problem. So can corruption - but I think it pales in comparison to corruption and greed from the corporate fat cats.

So what do we do? throw unions away? if thats the solution we're all fucked.

Unless you think you're going to magically make the Forbes 500 by the time you're 30.

Not.
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

Vlad Piranha · Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject:

I honestly hoped this would be solved without a black or white answer, but apparently that's escaped us yet again. Catering to either side exclusively is going to hurt everybody. I remain optimistic that this can be solved properly and without special interests. I hope it isn't just my foolish idealism talking.

massive · Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:19 am Post subject:

This is the time for your generation to get out and protest with us old ones - shit i've even seen ex-hippies dust off their sandals and pick up a sign - but no, apathy has a tight grip on us....just as "the man" planned.

Someday you will think of this time and say "why the fuck didn't i get involved and help?"

late
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Vlad Piranha wrote:

I'm offended that a zombie holocaust isn't on the list. It would be terrifying, sure, but it would be pretty sweet if you think about it.

Cap'n Sprite · Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject:

Fuck republicans. Fuck conservative people. Fuck religion. Fuck discrimination (race, ethnicity, sexual preference).

Quote:

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Hirmuinen · Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:03 am Post subject:

I woudn't trust one minute on big corporations or even smaller companies to be fair when it comes to work safety and rights of the workers. Everyone are complaining how the workers ask too much while you can barely make living doing full day hard work, all while the cost of living is rising and rents are climating even higher.

And seeing how the politicians have completely lost their touch with general puplic(if they even had it to beging with) what other choice do people have.
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RaidJTC · Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject:

Agreed. Talk about cutting back on something that truly shapes America.
However, what was to be expected? I mean, Wisconsin did elect a radically republican Governor. It's part of our democracy. Not to long ago, republicans were nearly in riots over healthcare reform. What did republicans do? Cheap tactics to try to stop it. It goes back and forth and what makes America what it is. Sadly, it seems that instead of compromising, politicans are forced due to party politics and lobbiests to be more and more extreme and vote only a certain way. Legistature will go back and forth and we won't move forward.