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Europa Universalis IV
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Stealth
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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:43 pm 
Post subject: Europa Universalis IV
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If you've never played the Europa series, I am saddened.

If you've never heard of Paradox Interactive, I'm even more saddened.

Are you a TRUE hardcore gamer? EU3 offers one of the most challenging achievements I've ever crossed. Take control of the single province nation of Ryukyu and conquer the world. Can you do it? Only 2 people have. (Based on 5 month old information)

These guys specialize in historical accurate games that are complex to play and have multiple ways to play them. There games are similar to risk. And if you invest time into learning their game, you will be rewarded with near endless possibilities. To date I have played more hours in EU3 than my entire BFP career. Mostly, single player. But multi is available.

In the Europa series, you can pick any country within the designated years. Changing the year, changes the country's territory, diplomatic relations, leaders, and often they'rll disappear and form a new nation.

EU4 adds in even more detail than before with a weather changes system. It influences your nation's troop movement, and specialized events that can only happen during that time.

But the most promising feature is the 100% modding capabilities. Paradox asked it's fan base what they want and they said that the want to heavily mod the game to add in their own content. So now, the community is prepping for some serious mods. And I can't stress how important this will be.

Consider that the people who play this game are history buffs and extremely intelligent people (Paradox is known for producing hard games to master), with full modding, we will get entirely new games. The Roman empire, Rise of the Ottomans, Russian Communism, Nazi Germany. All of these are possibilities put directly into the hands of some of the smartest people I know.

I'm excited. Beyond excited. STOKED.

Coming Q3 2013
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Erwin Rommel
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:45 pm 
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I loved EU2, but never could get into EU3.

I'll give EU4 a try, for sure. They've hinted that they will let you import CK2 games.
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Stealth
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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:45 am 
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I've heard a lot about that. It seemed like the EU2 player preferred EU2 over EU3. I was wondering if there was something different in EU2 that made it more appealing. What's your take on it?

If you can import CK2 games that would be pretty awesome. I've played the demo and thought about getting it from time to time, but I'm not sure I like the linage system. Have you been playing CK2? Perhaps you can show me the ropes.
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El Gran Capitán
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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Inter Veritates
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:28 pm 
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EU2 was better than EU3 because it attempted to be based on history and was chock-full of historical events. EU3 had crap like the USA revolting out of Jamaica and such....

Also, the 2D map in EU2 was a lot more detailed than the blocky 3D one in EU3.

Re: other games, I need to try CK2. Only ever played the first and had trouble getting into that one but the second has always sounded great. Also I never tried HoI3, only went up to 2...
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Erwin Rommel
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:58 pm 
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I don't mind deviating from history so much (I like the CK series, which takes a similar approach as EU3 in this sense), but the historical events in EU2 were nice, especially with AGCEEP.

Honestly, a good portion of it probaly is that the graphics of EU3 really put me off. EU2 had a really nice-looking 2D map. They tried upgrading to 3D, but really didn't do it well IMHO. I thought the interface was a little clunky too, but I'm probably just used to it in EU2.

It's funny - I still play and enjoy old games with ancient graphics, and even modern games like Dwarf Fortress with very low end graphics (and TERRIBLE UI). But it bothers me more when they half-ass it.

And then you add to it that there are a number of changes to gameplay mechanics, it just makes it too much.

To summarize my opinion of the Paradox series:

Quote:
EU1: Played it for one week before upgrading to EU2.
EU2: Love it
EU3: Not so hot on it

CK1 and 2: Love them

Vic1: Never really deeply understood it, but enjoyed playing it. I played several games that went CK>EU2>Vic1
Vic2: I own it. Haven't gotten a chance to try it.

HOI1 and 2: I enjoyed playing these, but they aren't my favorite.
HOI3: Never got into it. Sorta like EU3.


So the general trend is that I like the games in the Europa engine, but not the Clausewitz engine. The main exception to this is CK2, where I really think they did a good job. It looks like EU4 will ALSO be in the Clausewitz engine, but if they learned lessons from CK2 I might like it.
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Stealth
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Hmm... I'm guessing that's probably the case. I didn't get into Paradox until later. So I found the EU3 graphics appealing and the EU2 version lacking. I didn't feel as if the details of the map itself was important moreso than the gameplay.

I will say that I do hate random revolting and crap like you suggested and there are some other quirks that do bother me.

I once attempting to complete the Ryukyu achievement. Be Ryukyu and conquer every province of the world. So, I managed to conquer every province but my vassals. So, all of them could be annexed and it was very late, so I decided I'd do it in the morning.

Next day, they made a patch that when you annex your vassals, you must wait 50 years (something like that) before you're next vassal will accept your next annexation. So, no achievement for me. Tawxic may remember that day when I was in steam about it. Lol

I'm going to attempt to play CK2 tonight and see if I can learn some of it. It has always seemed interesting to me, I just need to get past that steep learning barrier.
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Berry Punch
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Even though i've never heard of this game the concept sounds interesting... Any recommended videos on it?
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Stealth
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:51 pm 
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It's kinda like watching people play a really detailed version of Risk, haha.

CK2 is more like about managing territories within territories and the people that run them.

So in both games, watching a game (to me) is pretty boring. What keeps me coming back is to see what I can achieve. I might want start in Africa and engage in tribal warfare, convert to Catholism, and conquer Europe.

Or I can be Russian and attempt to convert everyone to Orthodox.

You can check out some screens on Steam. Just type in Europa Universalis III or Crusader Kings 2. You can also play the demo of CK2 on steam, although it's limiting and you'll be clueless about what you should even attempt to do.
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Berry Punch
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Nnghh... Risk took forever to finish for me so I was never really all that into it in the first place.
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Stealth
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:41 pm 
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I wouldn't recommend the paradox games then. Hahaha
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Erwin Rommel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:19 am 
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Yeah, they're not for everyone.

What really pisses me off is when a review of CK2 compares it to civ 5 or Medieval Total War, and then goes on to give the game a poor rating for being too slow and not graphically interesting. It's as much of a dynastic simulator than a game in the trasitional sense.
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Hirmuinen
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:16 am 
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Erwin Rommel wrote:
Yeah, they're not for everyone.

What really pisses me off is when a review of CK2 compares it to civ 5 or Medieval Total War, and then goes on to give the game a poor rating for being too slow and not graphically interesting. It's as much of a dynastic simulator than a game in the trasitional sense.


But Paradox games have still some serious problems and they are far from perfect. These games have far too big learning curve just because of shitty interface, which alienates a lot of players even if they would like to play these kind of games.

Take a long break from Hearts of Iron and try to get back to it and you are scratching your head because of lack of information given by UI. It's unneeded and could be done better, if I was the designer of these games that would be one of the priorities.


I don't know. Paradox is like hate and love relationship. At the same time they make some good games like HoI, but they seem to shovel the same games over and over again with very little improvements or changes. Maybe it's because of lack of money or because they are developing way too many games for a small studio. I would prefer if they would focus on 1 game at a time(like on Heats of Iron 4 or Europa 4) and make it really polished/complete.
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Stealth
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:39 am 
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At first, I hated the learning curve. But now I'm glad it's there. I feel it challenges me and I'm not playing another mindless rehashed civilization type game.
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Erwin Rommel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Hirmuinen wrote:
Erwin Rommel wrote:
Yeah, they're not for everyone.

What really pisses me off is when a review of CK2 compares it to civ 5 or Medieval Total War, and then goes on to give the game a poor rating for being too slow and not graphically interesting. It's as much of a dynastic simulator than a game in the trasitional sense.


But Paradox games have still some serious problems and they are far from perfect. These games have far too big learning curve just because of shitty interface, which alienates a lot of players even if they would like to play these kind of games.

Take a long break from Hearts of Iron and try to get back to it and you are scratching your head because of lack of information given by UI. It's unneeded and could be done better, if I was the designer of these games that would be one of the priorities.


I don't know. Paradox is like hate and love relationship. At the same time they make some good games like HoI, but they seem to shovel the same games over and over again with very little improvements or changes. Maybe it's because of lack of money or because they are developing way too many games for a small studio. I would prefer if they would focus on 1 game at a time(like on Heats of Iron 4 or Europa 4) and make it really polished/complete.


IMO, a lot of it is lack of good documentation/tutorials rather than bad UI. There is so much going on that all the info can't be given to you up-front. CKII made some progress on that front, so I'm hopeful.
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Hirmuinen
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Erwin Rommel wrote:

IMO, a lot of it is lack of good documentation/tutorials rather than bad UI. There is so much going on that all the info can't be given to you up-front. CKII made some progress on that front, so I'm hopeful.


Theres that. Tutorial in HoI3 gives you the basics on how to see whats happening, but once you are in the game you have no idea what to do. It also doesn't help that most of the stuff is AI controlled(default in HoI3) and makes the tutorial pretty useless. What you would need is the basics, really the basic commands and simple stuff you see on screen and how to create/manage your army groups. Maybe even hints how to create good brigades, or even how you create a brigade......

I played Hearts of Iron 2(some years ago) and some of the stuff doesn't work the same. The tutorial is really lame in 3rd, like sarcasticly mocking me for not understanding it. I can get past that, but I don't see anything that would break the game if the interface would be more streamlined and more information given to you. Like is my armies under attack, like some icon on top of them(shield..) or engaged(crossed swords). Tons of little stuff that would make these games a lot easier to get into and woudn't break the game in any way.
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